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Retro Sales Age Thread

Square2015

Square2015

Member
allan-bh said:
Would be nice if someday we get this.

I remember that in the past you made Classic Sales-Age threads with monthly NPD (Square2005 was you right ?).

Maybe you can do that again. I would love to talk more about old sales and complete my knowledge because I have almost nothing on SW before 2002.
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Yep. I would like to continue in some form, if the mods allow. I would use rounded figures. This was the last month before the crackdown (March '95):
l0z6AVk.png

UxzMzuS.png

I'd feel more comfortable continuing this starting with the oldest data possible (like starting with NES era), because NPD still maintains data back to 1995 and not wanting to expose that.
BKK said:
Majesco re-released GG in 2001, there really should be GG figures for that year, there's a decent amount of these on Ebay ... they're not rare at least. Also NGP seems rather low, which may have been the case as I don't have any shipment figures for that platform, but it wasn't a stealth release, and they had decent marketing, so I'm slightly sceptical about that figure (but I can't currently disprove it).
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It looks like GG sold 45,000 from 2001.


Well, you don't get what you don't ask for, as is said. Nintendo is a different situation, as they still produce hardware, so I guess that it could still be considered as IR relevant data. I don't think that is so much the case with Sega, but they (SoJ) have been fairly open with sharing stuff from their archives with various retro gaming publications, so let's see. Unfortunately I don't carry much weight beyond maintaining this thread, along with documenting Sega's history along with others on SegaRetro, so I don't know how much effort they're willing to go through to help out a non-journalist. Still, I think that I'll fire off some emails to the various hardware manufacturers over the weekend and see what replies I get.
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I couldn't be more excited to hear this! I encourage anyone on GAF that is in the industry, a shareholder, or any other credential to contact the companies that were active in the video game industry during the 8-bit & 16-bit era.

Aquamarine said NCL was willing to share their older NPD data (with a shareholder) were it not for a contract they had with the NPD. So NCL appears to not have an issue with sharing the data. If NCL is willing wouldn't others also be?

If it would help I have some info on one of the NPD analysts at that time, who is often quoted in the reports during the 16-bit console war when the monthly reports were being released. I believe he is retired now. He might be willing to help, if someone has credentials and would be willing to ask him (1) who or what firms may have the NPD data from back then? and (2) how could that data be shared without harming the NPD's business today? that would be great.
 
A

allan-bh

Member
Square2015 said:
because NPD still maintains data back to 1995 and not wanting to expose that.
Click to expand...

Does the NPD really cares if old data is posted here? I mean, people are leaking new data every month for years, plus old data will not spread outside of GAF because there's no demand, only enthusiasts of sales age pay attention.

Surely they would not give a direct authorization, but I doubt they care much if some people are talking about old sales here.
 
S

SuperGamer

Member
Sales for the Sega Mega Drive (Genesis) and SNES in Western Europe:

Combining the continental Western Europe numbers given by Screen Digest (until 1994) with the UK numbers given by EA (until 1997) gives us the following sales figures for Western Europe up until 1997:

Sega Mega Drive (Genesis) - 9.17 million
SNES - 5.05 million

However, these sales figures are incomplete, since we don't know how much they sold in continental Western Europe during 1995-1997, or anywhere in Western Europe after 1997.
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
SuperGamer said:
Sales for the Sega Mega Drive (Genesis) and SNES in Western Europe:

Combining the continental Western Europe numbers given by Screen Digest (until 1994) with the UK numbers given by EA (until 1997) gives us the following sales figures for Western Europe up until 1997:

Sega Mega Drive (Genesis) - 9.17 million
SNES - 5.05 million

However, these sales figures are incomplete, since we don't know how much they sold in continental Western Europe during 1995-1997, or anywhere in Western Europe after 1997.
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So Master System Vs. NES was a draw in the UK? That's interesting.
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
It's pretty interesting that they were less than a million apart in Europe in 1994 according to Screen Digest despite Megadrive winning UK and SNES only having the lead in Germany and Spain. Guess the other markets weren't that big of a deal.
 
J

Jake Murrin

Neo Member
SuperGamer said:
Sales for the Sega Mega Drive (Genesis) and SNES in Western Europe:

Combining the continental Western Europe numbers given by Screen Digest (until 1994) with the UK numbers given by EA (until 1997) gives us the following sales figures for Western Europe up until 1997:

Sega Mega Drive (Genesis) - 9.17 million
SNES - 5.05 million

However, these sales figures are incomplete, since we don't know how much they sold in continental Western Europe during 1995-1997, or anywhere in Western Europe after 1997.
Click to expand...

Please disregard this uninformed babble spilling over from Wikipedia. According to Nintendo, 8.58 million SNES consoles were sold in Europe, Oceania, and mainland Asia (sales outside of Europe would be negligible). According to Sega, roughly 8 million Genesis consoles were sold in Europe by January 1997. SuperGamer seeks to cherrypick and combine different unreliable estimates in whatever way would put Sega in the most positive light, regardless of evidence or logic, and can be safely ignored.
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
Well, it's possible Sega did sell at least 580,000 with lifetime sales of Oceania and mainland Asia, as well as Europe in 1997.

I think it's one of those cases were we'll never have a definitive answer, though.

However, I will say that as someone who live in the UK in the 90s, that it certainly felt like Sega did win the 8-bit and 16-bit wars in the UK.
 
S

SuperGamer

Member
MikeMyers said:
It's pretty interesting that they were less than a million apart in Europe in 1994 according to Screen Digest despite Megadrive winning UK and SNES only having the lead in Germany and Spain. Guess the other markets weren't that big of a deal.
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The SNES and Mega Drive were very close in mainland EU. But when taking non-EU nations of Europe into account, the gap between them was over 2 million in 1994, according to Screen Digest.

Jake Murrin said:
According to Nintendo, 8.58 million SNES consoles were sold in Europe, Oceania, and mainland Asia (sales outside of Europe would be negligible). According to Sega, roughly 8 million Genesis consoles were sold in Europe by January 1997.
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The 8.58 million figure includes Oceania and mainland Asia, like you said. We have no idea how much the SNES sold in those regions. At best, we could assume the SNES sold 7-8 million in Europe, but we can't be too sure. The 5.05 million number I got from combining the EA & Screen Digest numbers is the bare minimum for Western Europe (it doesn't include 1995-1997 sales in mainland EU), not the final number for Europe (which could be anywhere from 6 million to 8 million).

The 8 million number for the SMD in EU is not from January 1997, but from the November 1996 issue of CVG (published October 1996). That's an incomplete number covering up to either 1995 or mid-1996. The final SMD number for Western Europe could be anywhere from over 8 million to over 9 million.
 
B

BKK

Member
SuperGamer said:
Sales for the Sega Mega Drive (Genesis) and SNES in Western Europe:

Combining the continental Western Europe numbers given by Screen Digest (until 1994) with the UK numbers given by EA (until 1997) gives us the following sales figures for Western Europe up until 1997:

Sega Mega Drive (Genesis) - 9.17 million
SNES - 5.05 million

However, these sales figures are incomplete, since we don't know how much they sold in continental Western Europe during 1995-1997, or anywhere in Western Europe after 1997.
Click to expand...

Both of these sources are wildly inaccurate, for a start, EA give 3.1m MD in UK through 1994, whilst Screen Digest give 2.1m through 1994. You can't just cherry pick the highest possible number from numerous sources and add them all together.

Secondly, Screen Digest figures aren't sales numbers, but "active installed base", ie users still actively purchasing new software (which is why the numbers peak, and then decline).

An example of how unreliable Screen Digest figures are ... through 1994 they give Mega CD as 850k active users in Japan, when in fact it only ever shipped 400k through March 1996 when it was discontinued.

SuperGamer said:
The SNES and Mega Drive were very close in mainland EU. But when taking non-EU nations of Europe into account, the gap between them was over 2 million in 1994, according to Screen Digest.


The 8.58 million figure includes Oceania and mainland Asia, like you said. We have no idea how much the SNES sold in those regions. At best, we could assume the SNES sold 7-8 million in Europe, but we can't be too sure. The 5.05 million number I got from combining the EA & Screen Digest numbers is the bare minimum for Western Europe (it doesn't include 1995-1997 sales in mainland EU), not the final number for Europe (which could be anywhere from 6 million to 8 million).

The 8 million number for the SMD in EU is not from January 1997, but from the November 1996 issue of CVG (published October 1996). That's an incomplete number covering up to either 1995 or mid-1996. The final SMD number for Western Europe could be anywhere from over 8 million to over 9 million.
Click to expand...

It's pretty likely that Sega's European numbers were actually "Europe + Others", ie anywhere not including SoJ, SoA, and third party manufacturers such as TecToy & Samsung.

We have a Press Release from Sega Europe, dated January 7th 1997 where they give a figure of 8 million. Note that they don't say "over 8 million", so by understanding "PR" speak then it's likely that figure was rounded up. Sega liquidated their remaining Mega Drive stocks in 1997 (they actually said that they would sell or destroy all remaining stock), and took a big write down on their inventory, so the final figure could be higher. However, Sega only mentioned the losses that this would incur from SoA, implying that inventories at SoE were not as significant.
 
C

Celine

Member
BKK said:
You can't just cherry pick the highest possible number from numerous sources and add them all together.
Click to expand...
Such a simple concept which pair with "educated estimates, sell-through data, shipment data are all different numbers which cannot be mixed together"and yet many don't grasp it.
 
S

SuperGamer

Member
BKK said:
Both of these sources are wildly inaccurate, for a start, EA give 3.1m MD in UK through 1994, whilst Screen Digest give 2.1m through 1994. You can't just cherry pick the highest possible number from numerous sources and add them all together.

Secondly, Screen Digest figures aren't sales numbers, but "active installed base", ie users still actively purchasing new software (which is why the numbers peak, and then decline).

An example of how unreliable Screen Digest figures are ... through 1994 they give Mega CD as 850k active users in Japan, when in fact it only ever shipped 400k through March 1996 when it was discontinued.
Click to expand...
I think your second point explains your first point. Screen Digest is only measuring the active install base, whereas EA is measuring the overall install base, so EA's numbers are obviously going to be higher than Screen Digest's numbers. It doesn't make either inaccurate, but they're just measuring different things.

I don't see how that makes Screen Digest unreliable. They're based in the UK, so their estimates for regions outside of Europe (Japan & US) are obviously not going to be as accurate.

BKK said:
It's pretty likely that Sega's European numbers were actually "Europe + Others", ie anywhere not including SoJ, SoA, and third party manufacturers such as TecToy & Samsung.

We have a Press Release from Sega Europe, dated January 7th 1997 where they give a figure of 8 million. Note that they don't say "over 8 million", so by understanding "PR" speak then it's likely that figure was rounded up. Sega liquidated their remaining Mega Drive stocks in 1997 (they actually said that they would sell or destroy all remaining stock), and took a big write down on their inventory, so the final figure could be higher. However, Sega only mentioned the losses that this would incur from SoA, implying that inventories at SoE were not as significant.
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I've never heard of Sega Europe ever shipping consoles to anywhere other than Europe. For regions outside of Japan, North America, and Europe, Sega consoles were usually shipped by third-parties.

I wasn't aware of that press release before. It's interesting that Sega told CVG in October 1996 that their install base was 8 million, and then gave the same number again in January 1997. I would've thought Christmas sales increased the number by then. But I suppose they could've just been rounding up the number in both cases.
 
B

BKK

Member
SuperGamer said:
I think your second point explains your first point. Screen Digest is only measuring the active install base, whereas EA is measuring the overall install base, so EA's numbers are obviously going to be higher than Screen Digest's numbers. It doesn't make either inaccurate, but they're just measuring different things.

I don't see how that makes Screen Digest unreliable. They're based in the UK, so their estimates for regions outside of Europe (Japan & US) are obviously not going to be as accurate.
Click to expand...

There were no accurate UK hardware figures back in 1994 (Chart-Track, then known as Gallup only tracked software) apart from the manufacturers internal tracking for their own hardware. See this post, where I show that the manufacturer's internal figures are the same as the 16-bit figures later used as historical data by Chart-Track. According to Chart-Track 16 bit consoles sold 2.781m from 1991 - 1994 (Missing 1990 MD figures, where Virgin announced 60k sold ... although that was probably shipped). EA gave a figure of 4.4m through this period ... their estimates were wildly over optimistic.

I've never heard of Sega Europe ever shipping consoles to anywhere other than Europe. For regions outside of Japan, North America, and Europe, Sega consoles were usually shipped by third-parties.
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Sega of Europe didn't even exist until 1991 when Sega bought out Virgin who were their distributor for UK, France, and Germany. At first even these three countries had different distributors, until Virgin took over Germany and France too. Every individual European region had their own distributor, for example; Italy - Giochi Preziosi, Nordic - Brio Playmix, Portugal - Ecofilmes, Greece - Zegetron. SoE never distributed in any of those countries, and whilst they did expand to distribute in some others such as Benelux (previously distributed by Atoll) and Austria, by 1996 they were in serious financial difficulties and closed down their operations there, returning them to various local distributers.

So yeah, unlike SoJ and SoA, the PAL market was really decentralised, with SoE being the largest of numerous distributors.

Here is a breakdown of their Saturn Shipments through FY95/96;

SEGA SEES FALL IN ANNUAL PROFIT
Monday 20 May 1996 | 00:00 CET | News

Sega (Japan), video games maker, reports consolidated recurring profit for the year to March 1996 down by 65% to Y4.4 bil, vs Y12.8 bil for the previous year period, on sales steady at Y384.8 bil. The company's fall in profit was attributed to increased competition in the US, a decline in European sales and reduced demand for the company's 16-bit machines in the US and Europe. The company's results also include a charge of Y26 bil covering the restructuring of its operations in Europe. For the year to March 1996, sales of Sega's 32-bit Saturn machine stood at 2.5 mil units in Japan, as well as 600k units in the US and 300k units in the rest of the world, including Europe.
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Here they break it down into three regions; "Japan", "US", and "the rest of the world, including Europe".

From the next FY they start splitting "the rest of the world, including Europe" in to "Europe" and "Other Markets". Prior to this they only ever reported shipments for three markets.

WORLDWIDE SATURN SALES REACH 7.16 MILLION

Sega Enterprises Ltd said on Tuesday that global shipments of its Sega Saturn game players by the end of December 31 totalled 7.16 million units. A company spokesman said that it was shipping 32-bit video game players at a more rapid pace than originally planned.

By the end of 1996, its shipments in Japan amounted to 4.4 million units and in the United States to 1.7 million. Its shipments in Europe by the end of 1996 totaled 900,000 units and 160,000 in other markets, the spokesman said.
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In addition (see here for sources), through March 1994 Sega reported Genesis shipments at 11.85m, and European Mega Drive shipments at 7.25m, a total of 19.10m for Europe and US through March 1994. Through March 1995 Sega combined all international shipments (outside of Japan) at 22.91m, up from 19.10m a year earlier, so clearly all PAL Mega Drive were previously just referred to as "Europe". That's not too unusual, SCEE often conflated Europe with PAL too. It also makes sense, there were three different configurations of Mega Drive hardware; 60Hz/JP, 60Hz/EN, and 50HZ/EN. Software could be region locked to any one of these regions, and they correspond to NTSC Mega Drive, Genesis, and PAL Mega Drive respectively. For brevity they referred to these as US, Japan, and Europe.

I wasn't aware of that press release before. It's interesting that Sega told CVG in October 1996 that their install base was 8 million, and then gave the same number again in January 1997. I would've thought Christmas sales increased the number by then. But I suppose they could've just been rounding up the number in both cases.
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The 16-Bit market started declining in 1994, and was completely dead by the end of 1996 in Europe. Only two MD games were released in Europe after 1996; "FIFA Road to World Cup 98" (FIFA has been one of a system's final games for many a year), and "The Lost World: Jurassic Park", a license which Sega must have paid a lot for as they even released it on the Game Gear (which was also that console's final release*).

*Excluding Super Battletank, which Majesco published in 2001 when they re-released the Game Gear.
 
J

Jake Murrin

Neo Member
BKK said:
It's pretty likely that Sega's European numbers were actually "Europe + Others", ie anywhere not including SoJ, SoA, and third party manufacturers such as TecToy & Samsung.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting theory, but if Sega sold 30.75 million Genesis units worldwide, including 3.58 million in Japan, 18 million in the U.S., and almost 8 million in Europe/everywhere else, where does the extra 1.17 million come from?
 
Square2015

Square2015

Member
allan-bh said:
Does the NPD really cares if old data is posted here? I mean, people are leaking new data every month for years, plus old data will not spread outside of GAF because there's no demand, only enthusiasts of sales age pay attention.

Surely they would not give a direct authorization, but I doubt they care much if some people are talking about old sales here.
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Right so let's ask those in the NPD about that...I have some names if people are up to it! We also have that Malcair_NPD (sp?) from the NPD threads.
...I'm optimistic, we have multiple individuals we can inquire now.

Years ago I talked to Prof. Shankar who did this study using NPD data:
http://public.kenan-flagler.unc.edu/faculty/bayusb/webpage/papers/vgames-e.pdf

He has complete NPD data back to 1993 (93 - 8/95). His response to sharing the data with me (I asked just for private use) was that he couldn't due to a contract with the NPD Group. I then asked him how long the contract lasted, he didn't respond.

Would they really need to keep data secret that far back, to this day?
 
C

Celine

Member
SuperGamer said:
I don't see how that makes Screen Digest unreliable. They're based in the UK, so their estimates for regions outside of Europe (Japan & US) are obviously not going to be as accurate.
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You don't see how that makes Screen Digest unreliable?
That's why this thread was created.

The sentence in bold is just speculation on your part unless you worked for Screen Digest and know the methodology behind those specific estimates.
 
C

Celine

Member
JRPG game series LTD as Decdmber '14.

Final Fantasy: 110M
Dragon Quest: 64M
Mario RPG: 22.55M (Mar. '15)
Kingdom Hearts: 20M
Tales Of: 17.59M
SaGa: 9.9M

Fighting game series LTD as December '14.

Tekken: 43.44M
Smash Bros: 36.13M (Mar. '15)
Street Fighter: 36M (Mar. '15)
Mortal Kombat: ≈ 35M (Mar. '15) *
Soul Calibur: 12.99M
Dead or Alive: 9M

* http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...ractive-Entertainment-Announces-Mortal-Kombat

I excluded game series like DBZ Budokai and Naruto Shippuden.
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
Is that just the main games or is it including spinoffs like Fighters Megamix, VF Kids, etc.?

Also that Mortal Kombat article is from March 2015. So shouldnt it say (Mar. 15) too?
 
A

allan-bh

Member
Square2015 said:
Right so let's ask those in the NPD about that...I have some names if people are up to it! We also have that Malcair_NPD (sp?) from the NPD threads.
...I'm optimistic, we have multiple individuals we can inquire now.

Years ago I talked to Prof. Shankar who did this study using NPD data:
http://public.kenan-flagler.unc.edu/faculty/bayusb/webpage/papers/vgames-e.pdf

He has complete NPD data back to 1993 (93 - 8/95). His response to sharing the data with me (I asked just for private use) was that he couldn't due to a contract with the NPD Group. I then asked him how long the contract lasted, he didn't respond.

Would they really need to keep data secret that far back, to this day?
Click to expand...

Well, for now what you are doing in NPD threads are working fine. To better understand, these software numbers are real NPD data rounded to the closest 1k or you applied some adjustment?
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
Celine said:
No, idea.
It counts 12 SKUs for GG, SS, 32X, DC, GC, PS2, PC.
I doubt FM is within them.
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Hmm, lets see:

01. Virtua Fighter Animation Game Gear
02. Virtua Fighter Sega Saturn
03. Virtua Fighter Remix Sega Saturn
04. Virtua Fighter 2 Sega Saturn
05. Virtua Fighter Kids Sega Saturn
06. Virtua Fighter Sega 32x
07. Virtua Fighter 3 Dreamcast
08. Virtua Quest Gamecube
09. Virtua Quest PS2
10. Virtua Fighter 4 PS2
11. Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution PS2
12. Virtua Fighter 2 PC
Maybe that is it?

FM did around 500k to 600k so if it didnt count FM then the VF series has done around 5 million in Japan as of 2006.
 
Square2015

Square2015

Member
allan-bh said:
Well, for now what you are doing in NPD threads are working fine. To better understand, these software numbers are real NPD data rounded to the closest 1k or you applied some adjustment?
Click to expand...
Yeah can someone contact that Mulcair_NPD guy?

For my numbers they are rounded to closest 1k from PS2 generation on. Before 2001 / PS2 gen they are adjusted to match sonycowboy's annual console totals.
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
Does anyone have Japanese sales for D? According to a 1UP interview with Kenji Eno, it sold a million copies in Japan. I find it hard to believe a 3DO game would do that well. I'm guessing they were counting the Saturn, PS1, and PC ports as well?
 
Å

Ōkami

Member
MikeMyers said:
Does anyone have Japanese sales for D? According to a 1UP interview with Kenji Eno, it sold a million copies in Japan. I find it hard to believe a 3DO game would do that well. I'm guessing they were counting the Saturn, PS1, and PC ports as well?
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Eno didn't actually said that, it was the 1UP interviewer, Eno didn't corrected him so there's that, but I find it hard to believe it sold a million units.

[PS1] D: 77.325

I could've sworn I had Saturn data for D as well, but can't find it it, I doubt it did much better though, even with the 3DO I doubt the game sold 300k units on consoles and can't see the PC market ammount to so much. D is not the kind of game that would have legs either.

I'm more willing to believe that the 1m figure is for all WARP games.
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
Ōkami;190698258 said:
Eno didn't actually said that, it was the 1UP interviewer, Eno didn't corrected him so there's that, but I find it hard to believe it sold a million units.
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Yeah, sorry if my post was misleading.

[PS1] D: 77.325

I could've sworn I had Saturn data for D as well, but can't find it it, I doubt it did much better though, even with the 3DO I doubt the game sold 300k units on consoles and can't see the PC market ammount to so much. D is not the kind of game that would have legs either.

I'm more willing to believe that the 1m figure is for all WARP games.
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Yes I find it hard to believe as well. Perhaps it meant the D series? D, Enemy Zero, and D2 - I could see them adding up to a million together.
 
Å

Ōkami

Member
[PS1] D: 77.325
[SAT] Enemy Zero: 377.909
[DC] D2: 73.100

Missing the PC, 3DO and Saturn pots of D and PC port of Enemy Zero.

Enemy Zero is one the best selling Saturn games, given that, maybe D did well enough on the platform too, still, we're over 400k off that million.
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
Yeah, something seems off.

Looking it up, D came out in 1995. Wasn't there something wrong with Saturn sales in 1995? Something along the lines of Famitsu only tracking Saturn sales starting from the end of 1995.
 
Å

Ōkami

Member
MikeMyers said:
Yeah, something seems off.

Looking it up, D came out in 1995. Wasn't there something wrong with Saturn sales in 1995? Something along the lines of Famitsu only tracking Saturn sales starting from the end of 1995.
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I have 1994 and early 1995 Saturn data, so no?

I am missing D's launch week, and like the 10 weeks afterwards, but no Famitsu tracked Saturn from the beggining.
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
Well, it doesn't have the LTD for D, so there is something wrong with it to me, lol.

But in all seriousness, here are all of WARP's titles according to Wikipedia:

Totsugeki Kikan (Karakuri) Megadasu!! (1994)
Trip'd (Flupon World?) (1995)
Oyaji Hunter Mahjong (1995)
D (1995)
Short Warp (1996)
Real Sound (1997)
Enemy Zero (1997)
Real Sound: Kaze no Regret (1999)
D2 (2000)

Possible 1UP was referring to all of them like you said.
 
Square2015

Square2015

Member
BKK said:
Well, you don't get what you don't ask for, as is said. Nintendo is a different situation, as they still produce hardware, so I guess that it could still be considered as IR relevant data. I don't think that is so much the case with Sega, but they (SoJ) have been fairly open with sharing stuff from their archives with various retro gaming publications, so let's see. Unfortunately I don't carry much weight beyond maintaining this thread, along with documenting Sega's history along with others on SegaRetro, so I don't know how much effort they're willing to go through to help out a non-journalist. Still, I think that I'll fire off some emails to the various hardware manufacturers over the weekend and see what replies I get.
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Any updates?
 
M

Moor-Angol

Banned
Sorry for the late reply but as probably I said before I was very busy (I moved to a new apartment) and also I worked on 2015 Famitsu data, which anyone cared of (what a loss of time...)

So this is the last Famitsu issue I actually have

Famitsu #310

Top 30 1994.10.17 - 10.30 (2 weeks)



01/NE. (SFC) SANKYO Fever! Fever! [1994.10.28 / Nihon Telenet / 9,800yen] - 23,241pt
02/NE. (SFC) Heracles no Eikou IV: Kamigami-kara no Okurimono [1994.10.21 / Data East / 9,900yen] - 18,988pt
03/01. (SFC) Dragon Ball Z Super Butouden 3 [1994.9.29 / Bandai / 9,800yen] - 17,041pt
04/NE. (SFC) Shin Megami Tensei If... [1994.10.28 / Atlus / 9,900yen] - 16,116pt
05/NE. (SFC) Feda (Emblem of Justice) [1994.10.28 / Yanoman / 9,900yen] - 11,327pt
06/02. (SFC) (SFC) Kirby Bowl [1994.9.21 / Nintendo / 7,900yen] - 9,666pt
07/NE. (SFC) Hissatsu Pachinko Collection [1994.10.21 / Sunsoft / 9,800yen] - 7,735pt
08/05. (SFC) Mother 2 [1994.8.27 / Nintendo / 9,800yen] - 6,862pt
09/03. (SFC) Samurai Spirits [1994.9.22 / Takara / 10,900yen] - 6,574pt
10/NE. (SFC) Kid Klown no Crazy Chase [1994.10.21 / Kemco / 8,800yen] - 6,406pt
11/NE. (SFC) Super Family Circuit [1994.10.21 / Namco / 8,800yen] - 6,357pt
12/NE. (SFC) Demon's Blazon: Makaimura Monshou Hen [1994.10.21 / Capcom / 9,800yen] - 5,886pt
13/06. (SFC) (SFC) Super Puyo Puyo [1993.12.10 / Banpresto / 8,200yen] - 4,781pt
14/07. (SFC) Pachinko Fan: Shouri Sengen [1994.10.15 / Pow / 3,900yen] - 4,376pt
15/NE. (PCE) Startling Odyssey II: Maryuu Sensou [1994.10.21 / Ray Force / 9,600yen] - 3,788pt
16/NE. (3DO) Alone in the Dark [1994.10.21 / Pony Canyon / 7,800yen] - 2,986pt
17/17. (MD) Yuu Yuu Hakusho: Makyo Toitsusen [1994.9.30 / SEGA / 8,800yen] - 2,322pt
18/00. (3DO) Yobunaga no Yabou: Haouden [1994.9.16 / Koei / 12,800yen] - 2,209pt
19/NE. (MD) Sonic & Knuckles [1994.10.18 / SEGA / 7,800yen] - 2,173pt
20/08. (SFC) Derby Stallion II [1994.2.18 / ASCII / 12,800yen] - 2,021pt
21/00. (SFC) Drift King Shutokou Battle '94 [1994.5.27 / Bullet Proof Software / 9,800yen] - 1,826pt
22/04. (SFC) Gouketuji Ichizoku [1994.10.14 / Atlus / 10,500yen] - 1,605pt
23/23. (PCE) Tanjou - Debut [1994.22.9 / NEC / 7,800yen] - 1,594pt
24/12. (SFC) Super Bomberman 2 [1994.4.28 / Hudson / 8,500yen] - 1,499pt
25/00. (SFC) Hello! Pac-Man [1994.8.26 / Namco / 8,300yen] - 1,449pt
26/24. (SFC) Zero 4 Champ RR [1994.7.22 / Namco / 9,980yen] - 1,359pt
27/00. (SFC) J-League Soccer Prime Goal 2 [1994.8.5 / Namco / 8,800yen] - 1,355pt
28/NE. (PCE) Basted [1994.10.21 / NEC / 7,800yen] - 1,315pt
29/25. (SFC) Space Invaders -The Original Game [1994.3.25 / Taito / 4,980yen] - 1,309pt
30/26. (SFC) Jissen Pachi-Slot Hisshouhou 2 [1994.9.16 / Sammy / 9,900yen] - 1,294pt
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
Does anyone here have US Sales Data for the Turbographx-16? I was just looking at the Wikipedia page and they have it listed at 2.5 million, which I was actually shocked by. I mean, that means it would have sold more than the Saturn, and I see that system at retro stores more than Turbographx-16.
 
Square2015

Square2015

Member
Moor-Angol said:
Sorry for the late reply but as probably I said before I was very busy (I moved to a new apartment) and also I worked on 2015 Famitsu data, which anyone cared of (what a loss of time...)

So this is the last Famitsu issue I actually have

Famitsu #310

Top 30 1994.10.17 - 10.30 (2 weeks)
Click to expand...

Just now seeing this. Thank you Moor-Angol!
use x4.35 works well

Bomba:
19/NE. (MD) Sonic & Knuckles [1994.10.18 / SEGA / 7,800yen] - 2,173pt
Click to expand...
That's at most 10,000 sold in two weeks...For the US NPD has it at 94,000 during the same two-week period, it would go on to sell a million here.
 
A Black Falcon

A Black Falcon

Member
MikeMyers said:
Does anyone here have US Sales Data for the Turbographx-16? I was just looking at the Wikipedia page and they have it listed at 2.5 million, which I was actually shocked by. I mean, that means it would have sold more than the Saturn, and I see that system at retro stores more than Turbographx-16.
Click to expand...
It's been covered earlier in the thread. No, that number is entirely wrong. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=150207527&postcount=69

As an update to that post I link above, it seems more likely that those unsold TG16s weren't sold in Brazil, they were most likely sent to a factory there and turned into Vistar 16 systems, a system for the South Korean market that uses US TG16 cards and system internals in a new shell.
 
Square2015

Square2015

Member
A Black Falcon said:
It's been covered earlier in the thread. No, that number is entirely wrong. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=150207527&postcount=69

As an update to that post I link above, it seems more likely that those unsold TG16s weren't sold in Brazil, they were most likely sent to a factory there and turned into Vistar 16 systems, a system for the South Korean market that uses US TG16 cards and system internals in a new shell.
Click to expand...

How common do things like this happen? Like retooling units already manufactured or unsold into another product? Have Nintendo and Sony done this in any way? (I can see Sony doing so- as a major electronic manufacturer) If it's common it would explain a lot of the "official reported numbers" vs. actual sales...
 
A Black Falcon

A Black Falcon

Member
Square2015 said:
How common do things like this happen? Like retooling units already manufactured or unsold into another product? Have Nintendo and Sony done this in any way? (I can see Sony doing so- as a major electronic manufacturer) If it's common it would explain a lot of the "official reported numbers" vs. actual sales...
Click to expand...
BKK presented the Vistar theory earlier in this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=163417996&postcount=189

On the subject of the Turbo CD, I add a few more things here, including Vic Ireland's quote about CD sales: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=163711705&postcount=201

But as for your actual question, ask BKK, but I would think that it's not too common? It has been known to happen on occasion, though. For instance, after the Neo-Geo Pocket Color was pulled from the US market some of the carts were sold overseas or reused for overseas games, while others sat around in a warehouse until they sold them in those blister-pack bundles several years later, for the one thing I can think of offhand. As for the major companies, though, that's a very good question.
 
Å

Ōkami

Member
So, I ran into a little problem with Famitsu's Top 100 for 2004 and 2005.

On Geimin, they list 2004 as the period from 29/12/2003 to 26/12/2004, yet the sales of some of the games on the top 100 for 2004 are counted up to 02/01/2005 such as with Dragon Quest VIII or Metal Gear Solid 3, yet for some other games, like Super Mario 64 DS, only goes until 26/12/2004.

Looked up the top 100 on other sites, and some list it from 29/12/2003 to 02/01/2005, then again those very same sites sometime have the top 100 for 2005 starting at 27/12/2004.

So what gives, which one is right? Nearly all sites I found list DQVIII at 3.324.167 for 2004, but as mentioned before that's what it sold by 02/01/2005, some have Super Mario 64 DS at 366.603, some at 469.652 and some have Gran Turismo 4 while others don't.
 
J

jconsolmagno

Member
A Black Falcon said:
I wrote this some time back but seem to have not posted it. Fortunately I still have the text. It's actually relevant -- some unreilable Brazil MD numbers are linked.


Ah. Yeah, only that super-unreliable Gamepro article. Checking on ebay Nomads are fairly easy to find, though, so it must not have sold sell terribly.


As for the Genesis 3 number, fortunately Wikipedia links the "1.5 million" article: http://archive.today/0y39 That's a MUCH better source than that Nomad article, for sure.

Wikipedia's TecToy source: http://jogos.uol.com.br/ultimas-not...vendem-150-mil-unidades-por-ano-no-brasil.htm 3 million Genesis and 5 million Master System includes those modern clones, of course, so determining how many were in the '90s would be tough, though if that post I linked earlier that says that TecToy's website (once?) said "2 million [probably of both] by 1996" is accurate, a lot did sell later on.

For both US Genesis 3 and Brazilian Tec Toy sales, this website: http://gamehall.uol.com.br/site/a-historia-do-mega-drive/ claims "around 2 million" for the Genesis 3 and 2+ million for Brazil TecToy sales, but a lot of it's probably just a Portugese rewrite of Pettus's SegaBase stuff maybe with some additions for Brazilian-market stuff, with the Brazil number being that from the TecToy site of course. That's all I can find for mentions of 2 million.

But yeah, I can't find anything better. I thought maybe I remembered more than that, but maybe not... but on the other hand, the Genesis 3 has to have done well; otherwise there's no way that Majesco would have re-released the Game Gear later on, after all. It was the failure of that re-launch that seems to have killed their interest in re-releasing old hardware. http://www.goodcowfilms.com/farm/games/news-archive/Possible Saturn and Game Gear Re-Release.htm This interesting article here about a Saturn relaunch along with the GG sadly did not happen. Did this rerelease of the Pico happen either? I don't think it did... http://www.goodcowfilms.com/farm/games/news-archive/Majesco To Re-Release Sega Pico.htm


The problem with TecToy Genesis numbers is that most sources include newer clones, not only systems which can play cartridges.


I highly doubt it.
Click to expand...

In what world was a $49 Saturn going to be profitable? There's a lot of tech in that system.
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
Regarding Brazil sales, here's a better source for TecToy's sales: http://www.sega-16.com/2015/11/interview-stefano-arnhold-tectoy/

Master System definitely went into cartridge slot-less production during the mid 2000s, but I don't know if the Mega Drive did. The last official release Sega Retro has listed was the one from 2006, and it has the slot. There is a handheld release, but I dont know if TecToy counts that one, since they mentioned in that interview they discontinued the MD but they still sell that. So maybe they consider that something else?
 
A Black Falcon

A Black Falcon

Member
jconsolmagno said:
In what world was a $49 Saturn going to be profitable? There's a lot of tech in that system.
Click to expand...
Good point, I don't know how that possibly could have worked. Who knows, maybe they canned it both because of the GG's failure and maybe also the potential price? All we know is that it didn't happen.

MikeMyers said:
Regarding Brazil sales, here's a better source for TecToy's sales: http://www.sega-16.com/2015/11/interview-stefano-arnhold-tectoy/
Click to expand...
I mentioned this in this thread when the article was released, yeah. That's certainly the best info we have for Brazilian sales.

Master System definitely went into cartridge slot-less production during the mid 2000s, but I don't know if the Mega Drive did. The last official release Sega Retro has listed was the one from 2006, and it has the slot. There is a handheld release, but I dont know if TecToy counts that one, since they mentioned in that interview they discontinued the MD but they still sell that. So maybe they consider that something else?
Click to expand...
Hmm, you could be right about this actually, maybe they only did MDs with cart slots? If so, yeah, those should count.

However, there is still an issue -- consider that the Genesis still has licensed clone systems available to this day, from AtGames and such. They don't use real hardware, but they are licensed from Sega. Should these count? (The SNES and Turbografx, of course, do not have anything similar to this. It's only the Genesis, Atari 2600, Atari 7800, Colecovision, and Intellivision, so far. There are SNES clone systems, but they're unlicensed...)
 
A

allan-bh

Member
MikeMyers said:
Regarding Brazil sales, here's a better source for TecToy's sales: http://www.sega-16.com/2015/11/interview-stefano-arnhold-tectoy/

Master System definitely went into cartridge slot-less production during the mid 2000s, but I don't know if the Mega Drive did. The last official release Sega Retro has listed was the one from 2006, and it has the slot. There is a handheld release, but I dont know if TecToy counts that one, since they mentioned in that interview they discontinued the MD but they still sell that. So maybe they consider that something else?
Click to expand...

Mega Drive was launched in Brazil in the cartridge slot-less format, including a 2009 product called "Mega Drive 4 Guitar Idol"

1114426.jpg
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
Huh. Is that mean to be some Guitar Hero clone for it?

Regarding officially licensed 3rd party products. Everyone is gonna have a different stance on that. Personally, I would prefer to separate it by company. For example, Sega at 30.75 million and TecToy at 3 million. The real question is what versions of the Mega Drive were Sega counting in that 30.75 million. I wonder if that includes sales for stuff like the Nomad?
 
A Black Falcon

A Black Falcon

Member
Oh right, that thing.

MikeMyers said:
Huh. Is that mean to be some Guitar Hero clone for it?
Click to expand...
Basically, yeah. The Guitar Hero-style game isn't a Genesis game, though. Sort of like the non-Genesis built-in titles on the AtGames systems, it's not running through whatever the Genesis is running on in the box, but other hardware.

Regarding officially licensed 3rd party products. Everyone is gonna have a different stance on that. Personally, I would prefer to separate it by company. For example, Sega at 30.75 million and TecToy at 3 million. The real question is what versions of the Mega Drive were Sega counting in that 30.75 million. I wonder if that includes sales for stuff like the Nomad?
Click to expand...
Why would the publisher matter, though, when the hardware in the box matters more? Majesco Genesises are not much different from the Sega ones. I can understand not counting modern clones, but since they are Sega-licensed, there is an opening there to count them in some fashion... though I would only count the ones with actual cartridge ports. Things like that one or the AtGames Genesis portables that don't have cart ports shouldn't count.
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
I just like separating them by publisher because it makes things clearer to understand.

There doesn't seem to be any sales data for the AtGames console Genesis. All I could find are articles about how it was doing well in the UK. Kinda funny since UK was one of Mega Drives strongest markets back then too.
 
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